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[Music]

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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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from Australia for science and reason

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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hello and welcome to the skeptic Zone

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episode number 516 for the ninth of

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September 2018 richardsaunders here with

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you from Sydney Australia and sometimes

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it would be good to have something like

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Noah's Ark because just the other day

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Friday Friday evening here in Sydney in

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this part of Sydney the you know West as

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it's called we had a huge storm cell

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come over Thunderbolts and lightning

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very very frightening me and frightening

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the cats actually they were both hiding

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under her table a strike a bolt of

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lightning hit just near skeptics own

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headquarters very close and there was

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flooding and hail but everything seems

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to be okay now coming up on this week's

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show we're going to interview Celestia

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ward a wonderful artist she creates

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wonderful caricatures of people and

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other artistic works and she's also one

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of the crew from squaring the strange

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podcast the squaring the strange podcast

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with Ben and Pasqual they do an

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excellent skeptical podcast find out

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more with our interview with Celestia

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Ward following that it's dr. Pauli with

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a random rant this week dr. Pauli

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interviews hannah slobbered over from

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the czech republic about her efforts to

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save turtles in Indonesia and around the

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world of course some interesting facts I

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bet you didn't know about sea turtles

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coming up then we have an open letter to

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the RSL association here in Australia

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this is their is turned and services

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league this is the group of people who

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look after the needs of veterans War

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veterans and things like that from all

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the services and there is a series of

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clubs many clubs dotted around the

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country there's one just down the road

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here in fact where they're a community

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club now really

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they have entertainment and they have

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restaurants and lots of poker machines

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lots

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of poker machines slot machines

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one-armed bandits but getting back to

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the entertainment some of the

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entertainment they have are these

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so-called psychics who go around

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pretending or thinking they talk to the

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dead and the Australian skeptics have

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taken the opinion and this is in

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appalling taste to have a show

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exploiting the memory of the dead in a

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building dedicated to the memory of the

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dead to the Fallen servicemen and women

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so I'll read that open letter a bit

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later on in the show

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after that it's reporter Kevin Davies

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from the AC T from Canberra the nation's

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capital chatting to a couple of military

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men and their opinion or their take on

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Star Wars when it comes to military

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tactics can Star Wars be used to be

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shown to teach military tactics an

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unusual interview indeed coming up later

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on then we have another interview in our

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series of interviews with speakers who

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will be appearing at the upcoming

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skeptic on the skeptics convention here

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in Sydney on the 13th and 14th October

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this week I chat to Lee Murray who is a

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PhD candidate at Monash University in

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Victoria and she is a social linguist

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she studies language how language is

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formed why we say the things we say and

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her particular interest is Australian

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linguistics and if all that wasn't

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enough to round off the show I chat to

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the challenge coordinator and

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investigator from Australian sceptics

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Ian Bryce about the Higgs boson because

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he knows a lot about the Higgs boson and

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the Large Hadron Collider I mean he

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really knows a lot he probably knows

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where all the restaurants are around

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that place and we haven't heard about

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the Higgs for a little while anyway Ian

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will bring us more or less up to date

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stay tuned at the end of the episode for

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more announcements from me but now it's

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time for me to run downstairs and make

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sure my fluids are up I might have a

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little chocolate milkshake or something

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like that because earlier today I

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donated some blood probably an armful

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I'm not sure and that story about the

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blood donation which was a initiative by

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the Australian skeptics will be coming

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up I think next week but as I record

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this I'm just just recovering well it's

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not much really to recover from so I'm

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gonna run downstairs make sure my fluids

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are up maybe have a bit of chocolate

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cake and a biscuit a KitKat I should

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have some my candy some lollies too in a

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pancake

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yeah maybe a packet of chips and well I

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do all that quickly I hope you enjoy the

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sceptic zone

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[Music]

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and joining me now from beautiful Las

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Vegas Nevada it's none other than

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Celestia Ward from squaring the strange

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hello Celestia hi pleasure to talk to

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you yes we don't talk to each other

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often enough I thought I'd give you a

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call but contact you because I'm so

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impressed now by the way squaring the

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strange is going what episode are you up

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to now oh gosh I just finished editing

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73 I'm very pleased with the with all

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this stuff we've been able to put out

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and Ben and Pasquale have been fun to

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work with we do we do have a little

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change I can announce on your show if

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you'd like please do a scoop well

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unfortunately the the scoop is we are

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going to for the time being be moving to

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a biweekly schedule so that you'll get a

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new you'll get a new episode once every

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two weeks but that means we'll be able

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to spend a bit more time crafting each

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each topic and diving a little deeper

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into each subject it sounds very

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sensible to me one day the skeptic zone

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might do that oh gosh yes you're staying

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power amazes me it amazes me I could do

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weekly episodes for what are you on now

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500 and what oh by the time this in that

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little interview goes a light it will be

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516 episode 516 but I can tell you as

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we're recording this now right now you

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and I Dragon Con is in full swing in in

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Atlanta Georgia and it was Dragon Con 10

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years ago I recorded my first segment

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for the skeptic zone oh wow so that was

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the last time you had a life I think so

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okay I am actually very sad to not be a

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Dragon Con this year but one cannot do

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everything one wishes

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to do but I'm sure a dr. Angela matki

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and Derek Cohen do know are doing a

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great job on the skip down there hi guys

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no they certainly are in fact I was

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going to interview them today but I

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think they're having too much fun

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probably probably but let's get back to

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squaring the strange because again it's

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it's a pleasure to listen to I find it

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endlessly fascinating it must be great

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to work with people like Ben and

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Pasquale what what to you because your

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involvement over the past months is

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being greater and greater what have you

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learned what have you discovered well

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besides the fact that it takes a

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tremendous amount of work and hours to

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put together a podcast that comes out

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once a week just that you know

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conversations are fun I got I really got

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into listening to skeptical podcasts

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years ago and I found the ones that I

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gravitated towards were the ones that

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had a conversation going where you have

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you have people who really know what

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they're talking about and then perhaps

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one or two people who don't and they can

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talk about stuff and so even if it's a

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topic I don't know much about I can at

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least ask questions and then usually has

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a a treasure trove of research to back

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up what he brings so it's always it's

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fun to do the deep dives on topics that

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might not be covered by other skeptical

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podcasts that just stick to the daily

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news and tell me just the logistics of

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it I know sometimes you're in the studio

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you go to Albuquerque New Mexico and

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you're with Ben and Pasquale but

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sometimes you're you're really based in

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Las Vegas aren't you I am yeah I

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actually have not been there I've not

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been down there too many times but the

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times I have gone we've just been able

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to sit in the in the studio and record

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like you know four or five segments that

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we can use later on that's the that's

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the beauty of having some evergreen

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topics you know there's there's some

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things we can look into that that

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sometimes have us have a historical bent

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to them like we've covered we've covered

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Benjamin Franklin we've covered we've

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covered some old investigations that Ben

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has done and what he learned about them

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and and so it doesn't necessarily need

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to be a topic that is informed with

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up-to-the-minute data so

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we can kind of jump around and do topics

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that interest us that still teach a good

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skeptical lesson if you look at them and

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they're still gonna be interesting next

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year or two years from now it's a very

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good point so I'm glad you get the

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opportunity to go there and do that

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sometimes but most of the time I'm just

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very curious just from a technical point

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of view you sit there in Las Vegas and

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you hook up with the guys

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well yes much much like you and I are

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talking right now on two different

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continents the Internet is wonderful

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there's there's Skype and we did a few

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episodes via Skype and Pasquale is our

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audio genius having worked in the

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industry for many years so he found ways

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to patch everything together and lately

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we've been using a service called Zen

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caster which is which allows you write

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on from from an online hub to track in

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two or three different people and then

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even do a little bit of post production

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mixing online which allows me to to grab

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what I need afterwards fairly easily and

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turn it into a podcast you're learning a

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lot I am by by necessity yeah and of

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course with the happy news is that

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you're very soon to have a little

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podcaster aren't you another month or so

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in up to my ears and dirty diapers or

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nappies as you call them very good we do

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call them nappies ah well that's that's

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that's that's wonderful news and I'm

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sure podcasting will be furthest from

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your mind soon yes we're trying to get a

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fair amount of material in the can so to

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speak so that we won't have a tremendous

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interruption of service but but you know

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hopefully the guys will be able to pull

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the extra weight for a little while and

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as I said we are going bi-weekly that

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was one of the factors that led to our

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decision to go every two weeks because

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you know I'm I'm birthing a baby and Ben

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is birthing his next book and Pasquale

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pesco has begun a new job and that's the

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thing that that's the thing about

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podcasting is none of us are gonna make

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a million dollars on podcast

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now you have to kind of fit into our

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normal life schedule we certainly do

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and it's wonderful to hear you actually

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over the past months you have taken a

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more permanent role on the podcast where

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in the early days it was fun with Ben

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and Pasquale and then when you came on

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board as a regular I I think the show

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really lifted and I really mean that

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it's great to hear your voice oh well

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thank you yeah I have tried not to take

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over but like I said scheduling as

281
00:12:51,020 --> 00:12:49,020
especially with Pasquale having many

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more job duties and not being available

283
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for some of the recent episodes I've

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kind of had to step up and be a little

285
00:12:59,570 --> 00:12:57,690
bit more vocal and and it's always fun

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00:13:02,120 --> 00:12:59,580
to argue with Ben I mean he's just a

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00:13:06,500 --> 00:13:02,130
great guy to shoot the breeze with and

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make fun of occasionally yes yes we've

289
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all been there I think yes all right

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we'll look Celestia again

291
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congratulations on on the upcoming baby

292
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but really congratulations of course on

293
00:13:18,860 --> 00:13:17,370
all the wonderful work you do on

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squaring the strange it would not be the

295
00:13:23,090 --> 00:13:21,000
same without you and I'm so pleased that

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you're a part of it somebody has to keep

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those two in line well I'm delighted you

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enjoy listening Richard I really do

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folks if you want to hear squaring the

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strange right from the early days

301
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there'll be a link in this week's show

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notes or just Google squaring the

303
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strange and you can hear Pasquale Ben

304
00:13:43,070 --> 00:13:41,520
and Celestia but for now Celestia Ward

305
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all the way over there in Las Vegas

306
00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:45,660
thank you very much thank you Richard

307
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and I'll catch you later on squaring the

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00:14:10,490 --> 00:14:07,060
[Music]

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00:14:12,620 --> 00:14:10,500
hey fellow skeptics in Medford here with

310
00:14:14,990 --> 00:14:12,630
celestial Ward your friendly host of

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00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:15,000
sparing the strange a podcast that looks

312
00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:17,250
at topics ranging from legends and

313
00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:19,530
cryptids and panics meaty myths

314
00:14:24,110 --> 00:14:21,810
psychology and folklore breaking things

315
00:14:25,850 --> 00:14:24,120
down and picking things apart as we

316
00:14:27,380 --> 00:14:25,860
skeptics do we bring different

317
00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:27,390
perspectives to the table

318
00:14:32,210 --> 00:14:29,970
Russia for example is a witty cartoonist

319
00:14:34,850 --> 00:14:32,220
and Ben is a brilliant writer and

320
00:14:37,100 --> 00:14:34,860
longtime skeptical investigator we don't

321
00:14:39,410 --> 00:14:37,110
always agree well we have fun trying and

322
00:14:42,170 --> 00:14:39,420
we learn new things join us for new

323
00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:42,180
topics every week or two or browse our

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00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:44,010
backlog of evergreen episodes

325
00:14:49,580 --> 00:14:47,370
available on iTunes and all your podcast

326
00:14:54,750 --> 00:14:49,590
feeding troughs swearing the strange

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00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:04,960
[Music]

328
00:15:12,010 --> 00:15:18,509
with dr. Paulie

329
00:15:24,809 --> 00:15:20,889
total numbers have been decreasing

330
00:15:28,809 --> 00:15:24,819
globally due to waste climate change and

331
00:15:31,300 --> 00:15:28,819
tourism unfortunately many people in

332
00:15:34,090 --> 00:15:31,310
Indonesia who are dependent on money

333
00:15:37,990 --> 00:15:34,100
made from tourism use turtle shells in

334
00:15:42,100 --> 00:15:38,000
jewelry and also sell turtle eggs as a

335
00:15:45,309 --> 00:15:42,110
delicacy recently I spoke with Hannah

336
00:15:47,740 --> 00:15:45,319
swab Padova from save turtle net in a

337
00:15:50,050 --> 00:15:47,750
small Prague cafe about what she's been

338
00:15:53,860 --> 00:15:50,060
doing with the in Tunisian people to

339
00:15:57,610 --> 00:15:53,870
help save Turtles okay so it's dr. Paula

340
00:15:59,619 --> 00:15:57,620
here and I'm with the founder of save

341
00:16:03,040 --> 00:15:59,629
turtle harness Wobegon

342
00:16:07,300 --> 00:16:03,050
and was sitting in a little cafe in in

343
00:16:09,850 --> 00:16:07,310
center of Prague so so Hanna tell us a

344
00:16:13,269 --> 00:16:09,860
little bit about save turtle and what it

345
00:16:15,939 --> 00:16:13,279
is that you do hmm I'm trying to help

346
00:16:20,410 --> 00:16:15,949
save circle already more than 13 years

347
00:16:23,650 --> 00:16:20,420
so it's really my like the thing what I

348
00:16:26,499 --> 00:16:23,660
wish to do and how I wish to help and it

349
00:16:29,170 --> 00:16:26,509
started just when I was a little kid and

350
00:16:31,319 --> 00:16:29,180
I was going to first class in elementary

351
00:16:35,980 --> 00:16:31,329
school I go to present from my parents

352
00:16:38,439 --> 00:16:35,990
small turtle Lanvin I to care about her

353
00:16:42,189 --> 00:16:38,449
and I was reading a lot about it and I

354
00:16:45,610 --> 00:16:42,199
saw that there was a lot of problems and

355
00:16:47,769 --> 00:16:45,620
that turtles are endangered when I was

356
00:16:50,980 --> 00:16:47,779
18 and I was in secondary school I went

357
00:16:52,929 --> 00:16:50,990
to Mexico as a volunteer and I saw that

358
00:16:56,499 --> 00:16:52,939
the conservation program there are not

359
00:16:58,540 --> 00:16:56,509
so good as I wish so I start to study

360
00:17:01,449 --> 00:16:58,550
University here in crack charles

361
00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:01,459
university and my better and also master

362
00:17:08,199 --> 00:17:06,530
thesis was about sea sea turtle so then

363
00:17:10,929 --> 00:17:08,209
I moved to Indonesia because Indonesia

364
00:17:13,569 --> 00:17:10,939
is the most important place for sea

365
00:17:17,770 --> 00:17:13,579
turtles you can find six from seven

366
00:17:19,630 --> 00:17:17,780
species here in Indonesia but this place

367
00:17:24,569 --> 00:17:19,640
is still very danger for them because

368
00:17:28,559 --> 00:17:24,579
people are watching them for four means

369
00:17:30,870 --> 00:17:28,569
4x and they also kill them for

370
00:17:33,629 --> 00:17:30,880
Rochelle and make a jewellery from it so

371
00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:33,639
it's for me it's really important to to

372
00:17:39,060 --> 00:17:37,090
help here in Indonesia okay cyan

373
00:17:43,169 --> 00:17:39,070
intonation is pretty close to home for

374
00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:43,179
us so I think that's really important

375
00:17:48,389 --> 00:17:45,850
for us to know what kind of damage I

376
00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:48,399
guess we're we're contributing to when

377
00:17:54,389 --> 00:17:51,610
when we go there is tourists so what is

378
00:17:56,340 --> 00:17:54,399
it what is it the same turtle actually

379
00:17:58,620 --> 00:17:56,350
does in Indonesia so I know that you go

380
00:18:01,129 --> 00:17:58,630
and volunteer there but there are other

381
00:18:04,259 --> 00:18:01,139
activities what is the advice to

382
00:18:07,759 --> 00:18:04,269
Indonesia as I said is really important

383
00:18:11,580 --> 00:18:07,769
place for sea turtles and on the east of

384
00:18:13,950 --> 00:18:11,590
Kalimantan here is the parable region

385
00:18:17,039 --> 00:18:13,960
and this region is the eighth most

386
00:18:19,289 --> 00:18:17,049
important place in in the earth for

387
00:18:22,919 --> 00:18:19,299
green turtles and there are also

388
00:18:25,860 --> 00:18:22,929
hospitals or the place and what we do is

389
00:18:28,139 --> 00:18:25,870
that we protect three islands where are

390
00:18:32,070 --> 00:18:28,149
nesting beaches and turtles are laying

391
00:18:35,129 --> 00:18:32,080
eggs here because since second world war

392
00:18:38,639 --> 00:18:35,139
the population of green filters decline

393
00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:38,649
in 91 percent here on the place which is

394
00:18:46,470 --> 00:18:42,730
quite really sharp and it's it's a lot

395
00:18:48,509 --> 00:18:46,480
so because we see that still a lot of

396
00:18:51,299 --> 00:18:48,519
people in Indonesia they are trying to

397
00:18:54,360 --> 00:18:51,309
to take the eggs from the beach and they

398
00:18:57,529 --> 00:18:54,370
are selling it on the market openly and

399
00:19:01,950 --> 00:18:57,539
also on the restaurant for tourists so

400
00:19:04,590 --> 00:19:01,960
we are patrolling the beach and in

401
00:19:08,039 --> 00:19:04,600
protecting the nest in the safe place

402
00:19:10,379 --> 00:19:08,049
which is also very important if you are

403
00:19:12,869 --> 00:19:10,389
coming to Indonesia as a tourist or

404
00:19:15,169 --> 00:19:12,879
everywhere on the on the earth because

405
00:19:19,139 --> 00:19:15,179
it's everywhere in tropical countries

406
00:19:21,509 --> 00:19:19,149
yeah think twice before you eat turtle

407
00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:21,519
eggs and before you eat turtle meat

408
00:19:26,369 --> 00:19:23,850
because all these species they are

409
00:19:29,519 --> 00:19:26,379
protected and they are critically

410
00:19:32,879 --> 00:19:29,529
endangered so yeah I think we do need it

411
00:19:35,159 --> 00:19:32,889
and I guess what are what are the aims

412
00:19:37,740 --> 00:19:35,169
that you guys are trying to achieve in

413
00:19:39,509 --> 00:19:37,750
the long run with save turtle I mean

414
00:19:41,620 --> 00:19:39,519
obviously the king one is to get the

415
00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:41,630
turtle popular

416
00:19:48,130 --> 00:19:44,090
back up and and and to save the turtles

417
00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:48,140
for me early importance is education

418
00:19:53,650 --> 00:19:50,570
because I think that maybe one day we

419
00:19:56,290 --> 00:19:53,660
will not have the money for salary of

420
00:19:59,140 --> 00:19:56,300
Rangers there is two things what can

421
00:20:02,560 --> 00:19:59,150
happen the first one is that he and we

422
00:20:05,020 --> 00:20:02,570
stop sending the salary to Rangers then

423
00:20:07,990 --> 00:20:05,030
they will go out from the island and the

424
00:20:11,110 --> 00:20:08,000
island will be empty and the poachers

425
00:20:14,170 --> 00:20:11,120
will come and take all X and the sea

426
00:20:17,980 --> 00:20:14,180
turtle population will be declining very

427
00:20:20,140 --> 00:20:17,990
quickly but the second option is that we

428
00:20:25,990 --> 00:20:20,150
do education first and we work with

429
00:20:29,110 --> 00:20:26,000
local communities so before this happens

430
00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:29,120
then the people already know that the

431
00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:32,090
sea turtles are more important in in the

432
00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:35,090
sea then on the plate and they will not

433
00:20:39,910 --> 00:20:37,610
come to the island and they will respect

434
00:20:42,940 --> 00:20:39,920
the sea turtles as a part of the nature

435
00:20:46,090 --> 00:20:42,950
habitat and they will help them yeah all

436
00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:46,100
right fantastic and I guess some sauces

437
00:20:53,020 --> 00:20:48,530
we like to pop over to Indonesia all the

438
00:20:55,060 --> 00:20:53,030
time which you're all aware of and so

439
00:20:58,090 --> 00:20:55,070
I'm just wondering what some advice that

440
00:21:02,080 --> 00:20:58,100
you can give to us he's coming over to

441
00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:02,090
in Tunisia and holiday there are several

442
00:21:08,100 --> 00:21:05,090
things what is good thing about versus

443
00:21:11,830 --> 00:21:08,110
plastic because there is a lot of

444
00:21:15,910 --> 00:21:11,840
rubbish and plastic rubbish around in

445
00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:15,920
Indonesia so please take care about your

446
00:21:21,790 --> 00:21:18,530
rubbish don't put it to the to the ocean

447
00:21:23,860 --> 00:21:21,800
and if you are going to for shopping

448
00:21:26,950 --> 00:21:23,870
somewhere I'll take your bag with you

449
00:21:31,540 --> 00:21:26,960
and please try just slowly to explain

450
00:21:33,100 --> 00:21:31,550
people because they will for sure they

451
00:21:35,290 --> 00:21:33,110
don't think that you are crazy why you

452
00:21:37,150 --> 00:21:35,300
don't want to have this plastic bag

453
00:21:40,420 --> 00:21:37,160
which is quite nice and you have some

454
00:21:43,150 --> 00:21:40,430
cold with you so you need plastic bag

455
00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:43,160
try to explain that there is already

456
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:45,290
enough plastic in the air and it's

457
00:21:52,300 --> 00:21:49,250
better to use it and second thing is

458
00:21:55,270 --> 00:21:52,310
there are two type of sea turtle

459
00:21:58,750 --> 00:21:55,280
conservation centers the one is wood

460
00:22:03,850 --> 00:21:58,760
which is like using the natural veil so

461
00:22:06,790 --> 00:22:03,860
here you can you can it's like our place

462
00:22:09,850 --> 00:22:06,800
you can become a volunteer and you can

463
00:22:14,170 --> 00:22:09,860
go with stranger to the nesting Beach

464
00:22:16,030 --> 00:22:14,180
you can use red headlamp which don't

465
00:22:19,590 --> 00:22:16,040
disturb Turtles and you can see how the

466
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:19,600
turtles laying egg and you can also

467
00:22:26,950 --> 00:22:23,450
accompany as small hatchlings to go to

468
00:22:29,170 --> 00:22:26,960
the to the ocean and you can help to

469
00:22:33,430 --> 00:22:29,180
collect rubbish in the place but there

470
00:22:38,260 --> 00:22:33,440
is one more type of Sidra conservation

471
00:22:41,500 --> 00:22:38,270
centers and these centers have pores you

472
00:22:46,450 --> 00:22:41,510
will see the difference for first moment

473
00:22:51,490 --> 00:22:46,460
and this this is not really not really

474
00:22:54,970 --> 00:22:51,500
good because the idea is good they think

475
00:22:57,910 --> 00:22:54,980
that there is there is small hatchlings

476
00:23:00,940 --> 00:22:57,920
just newly hatch and they are so tiny so

477
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:00,950
they are not ready to go to to the ocean

478
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:03,650
because they will be difficult for them

479
00:23:10,360 --> 00:23:07,610
to survive so they think that it will be

480
00:23:13,690 --> 00:23:10,370
better if they put the turtles to the

481
00:23:17,140 --> 00:23:13,700
pool and they will give them some food

482
00:23:20,950 --> 00:23:17,150
and that these turtles will survive who

483
00:23:23,650 --> 00:23:20,960
will be good but the sea turtles from

484
00:23:26,350 --> 00:23:23,660
the name you can see that that they are

485
00:23:28,210 --> 00:23:26,360
from the sea not from the pool so better

486
00:23:31,270 --> 00:23:28,220
for them

487
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:31,280
be naturally in the sea this the

488
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:34,450
problems in this swimming pool is that

489
00:23:42,370 --> 00:23:37,970
they the turtles cannot swim here so the

490
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:42,380
muscles are V and they cannot dive deep

491
00:23:48,100 --> 00:23:45,890
so DeLong and development booth and also

492
00:23:51,690 --> 00:23:48,110
the food is probably different from the

493
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:51,700
natural van they cannot learn how to

494
00:24:00,060 --> 00:23:55,730
catch food and how to look for that and

495
00:24:03,430 --> 00:24:00,070
the biggest problem is instinct because

496
00:24:06,700 --> 00:24:03,440
hatchlings has the instinct where to go

497
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:06,710
and how to come back as a dull turtle to

498
00:24:13,539 --> 00:24:09,650
to lay eggs only first two days after

499
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:13,549
hatched and if they are on the pool for

500
00:24:18,610 --> 00:24:16,010
six months for one year they will lose

501
00:24:22,450 --> 00:24:18,620
this instinct and they will not be able

502
00:24:25,870 --> 00:24:22,460
to come back to the same Beach for

503
00:24:29,289 --> 00:24:25,880
nesting so they will be like lost and

504
00:24:33,909 --> 00:24:29,299
they cannot be part of the migration and

505
00:24:37,270 --> 00:24:33,919
far of the reproduction so see that our

506
00:24:38,710 --> 00:24:37,280
population can decline this totally

507
00:24:42,010 --> 00:24:38,720
defeats the purpose of what they're

508
00:24:44,649 --> 00:24:42,020
trying to do you know yeah but really

509
00:24:47,169 --> 00:24:44,659
many theories do not understand yeah I

510
00:24:50,470 --> 00:24:47,179
get around like several emails every

511
00:24:53,740 --> 00:24:50,480
week because to reach the the mere you

512
00:24:56,230 --> 00:24:53,750
are you are protecting Turtles beaver on

513
00:24:59,080 --> 00:24:56,240
our holiday and here we are sending you

514
00:25:01,419 --> 00:24:59,090
a picture that we also help tear across

515
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:01,429
and there is this turtle from the pool

516
00:25:07,810 --> 00:25:03,770
and and they are just taking picture

517
00:25:10,740 --> 00:25:07,820
during a day is that so it's really a

518
00:25:13,659 --> 00:25:10,750
big job to explain all the time that

519
00:25:16,180 --> 00:25:13,669
this is not a good way of sitter

520
00:25:18,279 --> 00:25:16,190
conservation and it's really important

521
00:25:21,159 --> 00:25:18,289
where you go and which center you

522
00:25:23,890 --> 00:25:21,169
support by your entrance fee because

523
00:25:27,360 --> 00:25:23,900
they think that what they do is good so

524
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:27,370
you can check out Hanna's save doodlenet

525
00:25:33,789 --> 00:25:30,410
website and find out more

526
00:25:35,950 --> 00:25:33,799
and also we can you can donate to the

527
00:25:38,529 --> 00:25:35,960
cause so they can help pay for the

528
00:25:40,690 --> 00:25:38,539
rangers and and their conservation work

529
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:40,700
there and I thank you so much for taking

530
00:25:47,110 --> 00:25:44,570
the time to chat with me today and talk

531
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:47,120
soon yeah thank you so I don't know

532
00:25:50,529 --> 00:25:48,650
about you but there are a couple of

533
00:25:52,630 --> 00:25:50,539
things that I learned from from Hanna

534
00:25:54,940 --> 00:25:52,640
and the big thing that I learned was

535
00:25:59,230 --> 00:25:54,950
that it's really important to work with

536
00:26:00,970 --> 00:25:59,240
people when trying to change behavior we

537
00:26:03,220 --> 00:26:00,980
can see that in Tunisia that people make

538
00:26:06,159 --> 00:26:03,230
a livelihood from selling turtle shells

539
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:06,169
and turtle eggs and I think part of

540
00:26:12,279 --> 00:26:09,530
Hanna successes come from understanding

541
00:26:16,029 --> 00:26:12,289
this and also providing an alternative

542
00:26:17,980 --> 00:26:16,039
economic income for the people so that

543
00:26:20,529 --> 00:26:17,990
they're not dependent on these products

544
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:20,539
anymore and that has been really quite

545
00:26:26,049 --> 00:26:23,570
successful I think we can do this in a

546
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:26,059
number of different areas that we work

547
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:29,330
in and are concerned with in skepticism

548
00:26:33,549 --> 00:26:31,490
and I think it's really important to

549
00:26:35,529 --> 00:26:33,559
remember that if people are dependent on

550
00:26:37,450 --> 00:26:35,539
something economically that they're

551
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:37,460
unlikely to change their behavior

552
00:26:42,610 --> 00:26:39,770
overnight unless an alternative is

553
00:26:45,100 --> 00:26:42,620
provided so if you've got the time go to

554
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:45,110
save total net have a look at what

555
00:26:49,149 --> 00:26:47,330
they're doing because I think they're

556
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:49,159
doing really important work that's not

557
00:26:55,899 --> 00:26:52,850
only impacting Indonesia but hopefully

558
00:26:58,240 --> 00:26:55,909
will have an impact globally and if

559
00:26:59,740 --> 00:26:58,250
you've got a couple of spare box please

560
00:27:02,620 --> 00:26:59,750
donate to them because they're doing

561
00:27:04,779 --> 00:27:02,630
some really fantastic work all right

562
00:27:07,690 --> 00:27:04,789
thanks for listening to my read Spain

563
00:27:13,370 --> 00:27:07,700
dr. poorly and until next time stay

564
00:27:31,710 --> 00:27:22,920
[Music]

565
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:31,720
like watch your guide to quackery health

566
00:27:38,220 --> 00:27:35,490
fraud operated by Stephan Barratt MD

567
00:27:40,019 --> 00:27:38,230
quack watch is now an international

568
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:40,029
network of people who are concerned

569
00:27:46,350 --> 00:27:42,850
about health related frauds myths fads

570
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:46,360
fallacies and misconduct its primary

571
00:27:51,330 --> 00:27:49,090
focus is on quackery related information

572
00:27:55,830 --> 00:27:51,340
that is difficult or impossible to get

573
00:27:59,279 --> 00:27:55,840
elsewhere articles include quackery how

574
00:28:00,570 --> 00:27:59,289
should it be defined how it sells 26

575
00:28:03,509 --> 00:28:00,580
ways to spot it

576
00:28:12,260 --> 00:28:03,519
Howard Homs cancer patients and much

577
00:28:27,610 --> 00:28:20,330
[Music]

578
00:28:35,860 --> 00:28:31,210
published at skeptics comdata you on the

579
00:28:37,750 --> 00:28:35,870
4th of September 2018 an open letter to

580
00:28:41,710 --> 00:28:37,760
the returned and services League of

581
00:28:44,330 --> 00:28:41,720
Australia let the dead rest in peace

582
00:28:47,430 --> 00:28:44,340
[Music]

583
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:47,440
through its clubs the returned services

584
00:28:51,990 --> 00:28:50,050
League commemorates our servicemen and

585
00:28:56,310 --> 00:28:52,000
women including some who made the

586
00:28:58,710 --> 00:28:56,320
ultimate sacrifice we are concerned that

587
00:29:01,350 --> 00:28:58,720
those clubs are occasionally used for a

588
00:29:04,110 --> 00:29:01,360
form of entertainment that is

589
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:04,120
disrespectful to the departed and to

590
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:06,250
their relatives and friends for many

591
00:29:13,410 --> 00:29:09,130
years RSL clubs have hosted performances

592
00:29:15,810 --> 00:29:13,420
by so-called psychics or clairvoyance

593
00:29:18,270 --> 00:29:15,820
who purport to make contact with the

594
00:29:20,790 --> 00:29:18,280
spirit world and relay messages between

595
00:29:23,730 --> 00:29:20,800
audience members and deceased relatives

596
00:29:26,610 --> 00:29:23,740
or friends if these performances were

597
00:29:27,450 --> 00:29:26,620
described as quote for entertainment

598
00:29:29,669 --> 00:29:27,460
purposes only

599
00:29:32,210 --> 00:29:29,679
end quote then there would be less

600
00:29:35,820 --> 00:29:32,220
objection but they are described by

601
00:29:38,220 --> 00:29:35,830
psychics and as actual contact with the

602
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:38,230
dead with all the intense and

603
00:29:43,290 --> 00:29:40,330
potentially distressing personal and

604
00:29:45,090 --> 00:29:43,300
emotional impact that that entails such

605
00:29:48,210 --> 00:29:45,100
performances have been thoroughly

606
00:29:50,970 --> 00:29:48,220
investigated by experts over long period

607
00:29:54,090 --> 00:29:50,980
these performers use the time-honored

608
00:29:57,090 --> 00:29:54,100
technique of quote cold reading end

609
00:29:59,640 --> 00:29:57,100
quote which is well known to specialists

610
00:30:01,710 --> 00:29:59,650
magicians known as mentalists the

611
00:30:03,540 --> 00:30:01,720
psychics are not communicating with

612
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:03,550
spirits they are performing a trick

613
00:30:09,030 --> 00:30:06,610
though in a context we suggest is highly

614
00:30:11,580 --> 00:30:09,040
disrespectful people need to work

615
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:11,590
through their grief when a loved one has

616
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:12,250
passed away

617
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:14,890
it cheapens the memory of any deceased

618
00:30:18,540 --> 00:30:16,330
person to use their name for

619
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:18,550
entertainment it is completely out of

620
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:20,650
order when the deceased person had

621
00:30:25,130 --> 00:30:23,050
served their country and when the

622
00:30:28,890 --> 00:30:25,140
performance occurs in a building

623
00:30:30,780 --> 00:30:28,900
dedicated to the memory of the Fallen we

624
00:30:33,270 --> 00:30:30,790
therefore call upon the RSL and its

625
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:33,280
clubs to stop hosting this exploitative

626
00:30:39,270 --> 00:30:36,370
and disrespectful form of entertainment

627
00:30:42,390 --> 00:30:39,280
and this is signed Australian skeptics

628
00:30:45,650 --> 00:30:42,400
Inc Vic's skeptics Queensland skeptics

629
00:30:50,580 --> 00:30:45,660
Gold Coast skeptics Hobart skeptics and

630
00:30:54,930 --> 00:30:50,590
W a skeptics and as an aside I myself

631
00:30:56,810 --> 00:30:54,940
have long been going to RSL clubs for

632
00:30:58,970 --> 00:30:56,820
various reasons in fact

633
00:31:00,710 --> 00:30:58,980
the think tank segment which occurs

634
00:31:05,510 --> 00:31:00,720
occasionally on the sceptic zone is

635
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:05,520
recorded at an RSL Club and I have many

636
00:31:11,659 --> 00:31:08,610
times gone to see performances of these

637
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:11,669
so-called psychics for more information

638
00:31:16,700 --> 00:31:13,770
you can read this letter for yourself at

639
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:16,710
skeptics comm dot au

640
00:31:34,690 --> 00:31:30,850
[Music]

641
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:34,700
this is NASA her eyes she a flat earth

642
00:31:39,010 --> 00:31:36,410
but we should lie to everybody about it

643
00:31:41,919 --> 00:31:39,020
and say it's round 10 for maximum fun

644
00:31:45,310 --> 00:31:41,929
brings you the latest podcast an expose

645
00:31:47,260 --> 00:31:45,320
on the Flat Earth I want to take

646
00:31:49,030 --> 00:31:47,270
advantage of humankind and make them

647
00:31:50,500 --> 00:31:49,040
believe a lie so that they will trust us

648
00:31:52,390 --> 00:31:50,510
at the government it's all an elaborate

649
00:31:54,220 --> 00:31:52,400
lie and when you get on a plane they

650
00:31:56,650 --> 00:31:54,230
purposefully fly you farther than you

651
00:31:58,419 --> 00:31:56,660
need to go it's disgusting it needs to

652
00:32:00,010 --> 00:31:58,429
be stopped and if you listen to oh no

653
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:00,020
Ross and Carrie we will tell you the

654
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:06,050
truth behind the lies we will just tell

655
00:32:09,100 --> 00:32:07,610
you the truth behind the truth because

656
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:09,110
what we do is we look at extraordinary

657
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:11,330
claims that's right we've gone

658
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:13,610
undercover with alternative medical

659
00:32:17,950 --> 00:32:15,410
treatments fringe religious groups

660
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:17,960
fringe science claims a spiritual

661
00:32:21,940 --> 00:32:20,210
paranormal were there to check it out

662
00:32:24,190 --> 00:32:21,950
and let you know what happens is the

663
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:24,200
Queen Mary haunted I don't know find out

664
00:32:29,230 --> 00:32:27,410
we show up we make friends we learn what

665
00:32:31,090 --> 00:32:29,240
happens when you ask questions and we

666
00:32:33,669 --> 00:32:31,100
tell you all about it and we get all

667
00:32:37,010 --> 00:32:33,679
that funky stuff done to us it's oh no

668
00:32:45,220 --> 00:32:37,020
Ross and Carrie and maximum fun dork

669
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:45,230
[Music]

670
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:47,970
hi well this is Kevin Davies and I am

671
00:32:52,220 --> 00:32:50,370
here at the Amy and I'm here with Major

672
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:52,230
General Michael Ryan and Mick cook

673
00:32:58,220 --> 00:32:56,010
gentlemen how are you well me just me

674
00:33:01,070 --> 00:32:58,230
just me and me excellent

675
00:33:04,610 --> 00:33:01,080
so Nick we tell a little bit about

676
00:33:06,710 --> 00:33:04,620
yourself I'm straight Army officer and

677
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:06,720
I'm a total nerd love science fiction

678
00:33:10,790 --> 00:33:09,090
and at the moment I'm commanding the

679
00:33:13,490 --> 00:33:10,800
Australian offense College and that

680
00:33:15,290 --> 00:33:13,500
really means I'm about the intellectual

681
00:33:16,510 --> 00:33:15,300
development of military people and

682
00:33:19,610 --> 00:33:16,520
preparing them for the future

683
00:33:21,950 --> 00:33:19,620
excellent and Mick you so I'm a non

684
00:33:24,050 --> 00:33:21,960
award-winning podcast host and a veteran

685
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:24,060
of Afghanistan who also enjoys science

686
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:26,610
fiction and debating modern conflict and

687
00:33:30,650 --> 00:33:29,010
what podcast is that I see did prescient

688
00:33:32,330 --> 00:33:30,660
podcast and also I co-host

689
00:33:34,220 --> 00:33:32,340
wolf read since season 2 is coming up

690
00:33:36,740 --> 00:33:34,230
soon so the reason why we're here is

691
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:36,750
because both of you gentlemen recently

692
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:39,810
wrote a chapter in the new book what is

693
00:33:43,700 --> 00:33:41,730
the book called so called strategy

694
00:33:46,700 --> 00:33:43,710
Strikes Back how Star Wars explains

695
00:33:48,350 --> 00:33:46,710
modern military conflict and so how did

696
00:33:50,390 --> 00:33:48,360
the two of you get involved in this

697
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:50,400
project well I got involved because

698
00:33:54,940 --> 00:33:51,810
someone said an email do you wanna write

699
00:33:58,550 --> 00:33:54,950
a chapter so I said yes and I'm an easy

700
00:34:01,070 --> 00:33:58,560
ask for those kinds no I mean this was

701
00:34:02,510 --> 00:34:01,080
generated by a couple of people in the

702
00:34:05,780 --> 00:34:02,520
United States from the modern war

703
00:34:08,180 --> 00:34:05,790
Institute they're on the front here Matt

704
00:34:09,950 --> 00:34:08,190
Cavanaugh in particular and he pitched

705
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:09,960
this idea and I went yeah I want to

706
00:34:14,750 --> 00:34:11,490
participate in writing about our

707
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:14,760
profession and sparking interest amongst

708
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:17,010
a wider range of people and using Star

709
00:34:21,050 --> 00:34:18,690
Wars as the framework was great because

710
00:34:23,810 --> 00:34:21,060
I'm a star wolves not know about you

711
00:34:26,050 --> 00:34:23,820
Mick similar sort story and email out of

712
00:34:28,399 --> 00:34:26,060
the blue saying do you want in and I

713
00:34:30,649 --> 00:34:28,409
write back we've got a chapter ready to

714
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:30,659
go let's do it so very very simple sauce

715
00:34:35,889 --> 00:34:31,770
you already had one ready to go

716
00:34:38,180 --> 00:34:35,899
pretty much not according to Ed John

717
00:34:39,740 --> 00:34:38,190
apparently wasn't so ready he quite a

718
00:34:42,649 --> 00:34:39,750
few months worth work Michael it was

719
00:34:44,899 --> 00:34:42,659
really at the time why how does star was

720
00:34:47,030 --> 00:34:44,909
explained modern conflict well I think

721
00:34:48,889 --> 00:34:47,040
it explains quite a few things it's a

722
00:34:52,430 --> 00:34:48,899
framework for looking at the issues that

723
00:34:54,850 --> 00:34:52,440
we face as professionals everything from

724
00:34:57,490 --> 00:34:54,860
strategy and strategic thinking

725
00:35:00,340 --> 00:34:57,500
to ethical decision-making down to

726
00:35:02,950 --> 00:35:00,350
tactics and operations and here you have

727
00:35:06,100 --> 00:35:02,960
different parts of an organization the

728
00:35:08,590 --> 00:35:06,110
joint military forces or military and

729
00:35:10,270 --> 00:35:08,600
civilian parts or interagency is a great

730
00:35:11,830 --> 00:35:10,280
framework to look at how you can help

731
00:35:14,890 --> 00:35:11,840
them work together more collaboratively

732
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:14,900
yeah I totally agree especially in terms

733
00:35:18,580 --> 00:35:16,970
of the useful word framework you can

734
00:35:20,980 --> 00:35:18,590
watch Star Wars and understand every

735
00:35:23,170 --> 00:35:20,990
conflict going on right now in the world

736
00:35:25,210 --> 00:35:23,180
but you can understand parts of certain

737
00:35:27,310 --> 00:35:25,220
conflicts by using Star Wars as a

738
00:35:29,860 --> 00:35:27,320
framework and a lens a good example is

739
00:35:31,570 --> 00:35:29,870
that you know Luke Skywalker was a rural

740
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:31,580
farm boy who was radicalized and joined

741
00:35:36,490 --> 00:35:34,850
the insurgency force so very very strong

742
00:35:38,140 --> 00:35:36,500
parallels with some of the some of the

743
00:35:40,150 --> 00:35:38,150
conflict zones out there right now I

744
00:35:40,780 --> 00:35:40,160
never quite thought of it that way but I

745
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:40,790
see your point

746
00:35:45,310 --> 00:35:42,770
does it tell us a little bit more about

747
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:45,320
the book well it's designed to a general

748
00:35:50,110 --> 00:35:47,330
reader it can well be a military officer

749
00:35:51,250 --> 00:35:50,120
who's who's deeply read in military

750
00:35:53,710 --> 00:35:51,260
history and a range of contemporary

751
00:35:55,150 --> 00:35:53,720
issues and a king will be someone just

752
00:35:57,820 --> 00:35:55,160
walking down the street who has a

753
00:36:00,160 --> 00:35:57,830
passing interests it's designed to be a

754
00:36:02,170 --> 00:36:00,170
compendium of different issues in short

755
00:36:05,020 --> 00:36:02,180
articles that cover a range of different

756
00:36:07,240 --> 00:36:05,030
themes all through the framework of the

757
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:07,250
Star Wars universe and what does your

758
00:36:13,180 --> 00:36:11,090
chapter focus on my fact focus is the

759
00:36:15,610 --> 00:36:13,190
Grand Army of the Republic and it's

760
00:36:17,380 --> 00:36:15,620
descent into the forces of the Empire

761
00:36:20,050 --> 00:36:17,390
but I look at the strategic issues

762
00:36:22,510 --> 00:36:20,060
around that about setting strategic

763
00:36:25,750 --> 00:36:22,520
objectives about the lethal sorry the

764
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:25,760
legal and the ethical use of force in

765
00:36:32,410 --> 00:36:29,890
its failure to retail around you know

766
00:36:35,590 --> 00:36:32,420
democracies have military forces that

767
00:36:39,190 --> 00:36:35,600
need to work to the civil authority that

768
00:36:42,910 --> 00:36:39,200
need to work to ethical and legal

769
00:36:44,410 --> 00:36:42,920
political outcomes and that they should

770
00:36:46,990 --> 00:36:44,420
do so in a way that's effective

771
00:36:49,060 --> 00:36:47,000
efficient and ethical and what about you

772
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:49,070
me what did you focus on so my chapters

773
00:36:55,210 --> 00:36:51,970
are not as creative as general Ryan's

774
00:36:57,970 --> 00:36:55,220
because I I come at it more from a and a

775
00:37:00,730 --> 00:36:57,980
standard essay approach and I explore

776
00:37:02,460 --> 00:37:00,740
Just War theory and particularly weapons

777
00:37:05,010 --> 00:37:02,470
of mass destruction collateral damage

778
00:37:07,109 --> 00:37:05,020
I focus on the Death Star's destruction

779
00:37:08,700 --> 00:37:07,119
of planet Alderaan because I mean I only

780
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:08,710
have to watch 15 minutes of Star Wars to

781
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:11,410
get on my research done but I used Just

782
00:37:15,870 --> 00:37:13,450
War Theory in the idea of distinction

783
00:37:17,310 --> 00:37:15,880
proportionality necessity to examine

784
00:37:19,589 --> 00:37:17,320
whether or not that was a just decision

785
00:37:21,450 --> 00:37:19,599
and then compare that to real-world

786
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:21,460
examples of weapons of mass destruction

787
00:37:25,770 --> 00:37:23,290
namely the destruction of cities of

788
00:37:28,470 --> 00:37:25,780
Hiroshima and Nagasaki well certainly a

789
00:37:30,060 --> 00:37:28,480
lot to cover there how can we find the

790
00:37:31,770 --> 00:37:30,070
book and how can we reach you two

791
00:37:34,050 --> 00:37:31,780
gentlemen well you can find it on Amazon

792
00:37:36,030 --> 00:37:34,060
it's available through Amazon and

793
00:37:38,010 --> 00:37:36,040
there's also a podcast that interviews

794
00:37:39,510 --> 00:37:38,020
many of the authors and involved so you

795
00:37:42,359 --> 00:37:39,520
can read the book listen to the podcast

796
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:42,369
follow it on Twitter and how can we

797
00:37:46,980 --> 00:37:44,410
reach you well you can reach both of us

798
00:37:48,240 --> 00:37:46,990
on Twitter because we're quite I'd like

799
00:37:49,620 --> 00:37:48,250
to say we're big in the Twittersphere I

800
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:49,630
think we're just prolific rather than

801
00:37:54,839 --> 00:37:52,450
big babies life into them but you find

802
00:37:56,660 --> 00:37:54,849
Jenner on at war in the future and you

803
00:37:58,980 --> 00:37:56,670
can find myself at meek under school

804
00:38:00,610 --> 00:37:58,990
okay gentlemen thank you very much this

805
00:38:09,310 --> 00:38:00,620
has been really informative

806
00:38:12,170 --> 00:38:09,320
[Music]

807
00:38:14,930 --> 00:38:12,180
greetings listeners it's me captain

808
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:14,940
disillusion on my youtube channel called

809
00:38:19,730 --> 00:38:17,490
captain disillusion aye captain

810
00:38:21,770 --> 00:38:19,740
disillusion analyzed viral videos of the

811
00:38:24,470 --> 00:38:21,780
strange and unbelievable I explained how

812
00:38:26,270 --> 00:38:24,480
interframe video compression 3d motion

813
00:38:28,310 --> 00:38:26,280
tracking and stock V effects elements

814
00:38:30,860 --> 00:38:28,320
proved that Justin Bieber is not a

815
00:38:32,870 --> 00:38:30,870
secret reptilian alien that those videos

816
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:32,880
of ghost cars are just unintentional

817
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:34,890
optical illusions and that lightning did

818
00:38:38,450 --> 00:38:36,570
not strike a few feet away from a girl

819
00:38:41,180 --> 00:38:38,460
on a beach as we saw in the news I'm

820
00:38:44,990 --> 00:38:41,190
real fun at parties my best friend is a

821
00:38:46,940 --> 00:38:45,000
lens flare disillusion I do know other

822
00:38:47,570 --> 00:38:46,950
people sometimes they even show up in my

823
00:38:49,940 --> 00:38:47,580
videos

824
00:38:52,340 --> 00:38:49,950
people like skepticisms grandpa James

825
00:38:52,790 --> 00:38:52,350
Randi serve de Soleil Acrobat Erica

826
00:38:54,950 --> 00:38:52,800
Lin's

827
00:38:57,110 --> 00:38:54,960
weight loss enthusiast Penn Jillette and

828
00:38:59,390 --> 00:38:57,120
the actual Beekman from Beakman's world

829
00:39:01,700 --> 00:38:59,400
I hope you'll check out my adventures

830
00:39:04,010 --> 00:39:01,710
interact with me in a platonic way and

831
00:39:06,500 --> 00:39:04,020
even consider becoming a patron of my

832
00:39:09,790 --> 00:39:06,510
work you can do all that and more on

833
00:39:17,900 --> 00:39:09,800
YouTube or at Captain disillusion calm

834
00:39:17,900 --> 00:39:17,910
[Music]

835
00:39:23,420 --> 00:39:20,390
and joining me now all the way from

836
00:39:27,590 --> 00:39:23,430
Monash University in Melbourne it's Lee

837
00:39:30,110 --> 00:39:27,600
Murray hello Lee hi I'm doing really

838
00:39:32,570 --> 00:39:30,120
well nice to catch up with you I'm so

839
00:39:34,250 --> 00:39:32,580
intrigued and I'm sure our listeners

840
00:39:37,250 --> 00:39:34,260
will be so intrigued about what you do

841
00:39:39,950 --> 00:39:37,260
now you'll be speaking at the skeptic on

842
00:39:41,900 --> 00:39:39,960
the convention here in Sydney next month

843
00:39:43,310 --> 00:39:41,910
we'll get to that soon but let's have a

844
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:43,320
little chat about what you do and I

845
00:39:55,750 --> 00:39:44,970
suppose chat is the operative word

846
00:39:59,840 --> 00:39:57,770
certainly within general we're

847
00:40:02,660 --> 00:39:59,850
interested in the interface between

848
00:40:04,730 --> 00:40:02,670
language and society and that's a really

849
00:40:06,620 --> 00:40:04,740
really broad search and there are lots

850
00:40:10,430 --> 00:40:06,630
of different specialties within it so

851
00:40:11,930 --> 00:40:10,440
there are some of us who look at whether

852
00:40:13,940 --> 00:40:11,940
or not there might be some kind of

853
00:40:16,670 --> 00:40:13,950
change in language going on over time so

854
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:16,680
if we look at people who are older and

855
00:40:20,180 --> 00:40:18,210
then we compare them to people who are

856
00:40:22,130 --> 00:40:20,190
younger we might get some kind of idea

857
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:22,140
of whether language has changed over

858
00:40:28,820 --> 00:40:25,970
time or some of us might look at

859
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:28,830
multilingualism what happens when people

860
00:40:34,130 --> 00:40:30,690
with different languages and different

861
00:40:36,230 --> 00:40:34,140
cultures coexist in the same place well

862
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:36,240
what are what is thinking because

863
00:40:42,260 --> 00:40:39,330
Australia would be just the the ideal

864
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:42,270
test tube for this wouldn't it yeah

865
00:40:46,070 --> 00:40:44,130
absolutely we are a massively

866
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:46,080
multicultural and multilingual society

867
00:40:50,930 --> 00:40:48,330
particularly down here in Melbourne and

868
00:40:53,090 --> 00:40:50,940
and not to mention the years that have

869
00:40:56,030 --> 00:40:53,100
gone by and I mean if I think about my

870
00:40:58,840 --> 00:40:56,040
own experiences the phrases and the way

871
00:41:01,760 --> 00:40:58,850
people spoke when I was a little boy I

872
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:01,770
don't know if the word dying out is

873
00:41:06,500 --> 00:41:03,450
appropriate there's certainly been it's

874
00:41:08,270 --> 00:41:06,510
been changing over the years yes and you

875
00:41:14,090 --> 00:41:08,280
will often find people complaining about

876
00:41:16,130 --> 00:41:14,100
that change and what we do know is that

877
00:41:17,510 --> 00:41:16,140
language has been changing ever since we

878
00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:17,520
started communicating with each other

879
00:41:23,030 --> 00:41:20,130
and probably for about that long people

880
00:41:25,820 --> 00:41:23,040
have been complaining about it oh well

881
00:41:29,180 --> 00:41:25,830
you can see this when people yell at the

882
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:29,190
TV at the newsreaders for pronouncing

883
00:41:34,100 --> 00:41:31,290
things incorrectly or to their

884
00:41:37,100 --> 00:41:34,110
pronouncing things incorrectly yeah

885
00:41:39,740 --> 00:41:37,110
absolutely I mean we've got letters that

886
00:41:41,780 --> 00:41:39,750
people have written 100 200 years ago

887
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:41,790
complaining about how the young people

888
00:41:49,670 --> 00:41:45,210
keep talking the wrong way seriously

889
00:41:52,220 --> 00:41:49,680
that's funny that's a yes for a while

890
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:52,230
there was a huge thing with the youth

891
00:41:57,740 --> 00:41:54,930
thing you instead of Val and how that

892
00:41:59,270 --> 00:41:57,750
we're going to destroy English oh well

893
00:42:01,010 --> 00:41:59,280
that that's the reason we've discovered

894
00:42:05,210 --> 00:42:01,020
the reason why English has been going

895
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:05,220
downhill all these years little things

896
00:42:09,070 --> 00:42:07,410
we do know is that younger people are

897
00:42:11,990 --> 00:42:09,080
the ones who are driving language change

898
00:42:15,170 --> 00:42:12,000
in general and it's usually young women

899
00:42:16,730 --> 00:42:15,180
actually really so it'll be yeah so

900
00:42:18,290 --> 00:42:16,740
there will be something that young women

901
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:18,300
do with their language and everybody

902
00:42:21,710 --> 00:42:20,010
would pile on it and everybody will make

903
00:42:24,050 --> 00:42:21,720
fun of us and everybody will tell them

904
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:24,060
it makes them sound stupid and then sure

905
00:42:28,310 --> 00:42:25,650
enough a few years later everybody's

906
00:42:31,130 --> 00:42:28,320
doing it have you looked into the the

907
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:31,140
like phenomenon in other words some

908
00:42:37,100 --> 00:42:34,170
young people in my experience will drop

909
00:42:39,500 --> 00:42:37,110
the word like once or twice in a

910
00:42:41,390 --> 00:42:39,510
sentence every sentence where it's just

911
00:42:43,130 --> 00:42:41,400
astounding how many times they can fit

912
00:42:46,010 --> 00:42:43,140
the word like into their sentence

913
00:42:47,450 --> 00:42:46,020
structure yes and one of the reasons

914
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:47,460
they do that so much is that there are

915
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:49,650
actually multiple uses of the word like

916
00:42:56,060 --> 00:42:53,490
going on so sometimes we do it when

917
00:42:57,560 --> 00:42:56,070
there's a pause with so we're saying I'm

918
00:42:58,940 --> 00:42:57,570
not done talking yet just give me a

919
00:43:01,670 --> 00:42:58,950
second

920
00:43:03,110 --> 00:43:01,680
sometimes it's when we're about to quote

921
00:43:04,310 --> 00:43:03,120
someone or when we were about to mimic

922
00:43:06,290 --> 00:43:04,320
someone so you'll often hear the

923
00:43:09,140 --> 00:43:06,300
construction are and then he was like

924
00:43:12,380 --> 00:43:09,150
what are you doing and we call out a

925
00:43:15,260 --> 00:43:12,390
quote - yeah yeah and so that just means

926
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:15,270
what you're introducing what someone has

927
00:43:18,110 --> 00:43:16,530
said you're about to report what

928
00:43:21,830 --> 00:43:18,120
somebody has said you're about to become

929
00:43:23,690 --> 00:43:21,840
even and that gets mixed up I think in

930
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:23,700
people's minds with people using like

931
00:43:27,890 --> 00:43:25,890
other filler that's interesting because

932
00:43:31,790 --> 00:43:27,900
you're absolutely right and when people

933
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:31,800
do use it in that fashion as the example

934
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:35,370
you quoted and he was like and what are

935
00:43:39,140 --> 00:43:36,090
you doing here

936
00:43:40,580 --> 00:43:39,150
to my ear at least it sounds well it

937
00:43:42,620 --> 00:43:40,590
still sounds a bit strange but I don't

938
00:43:45,470 --> 00:43:42,630
have any problem understanding what

939
00:43:48,099 --> 00:43:45,480
they're trying to tell me yeah

940
00:43:51,230 --> 00:43:48,109
which is the functional language I guess

941
00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:51,240
yes so there's a lot of people

942
00:43:54,319 --> 00:43:52,650
complaining about how something's

943
00:43:56,780 --> 00:43:54,329
incorrect and how it makes communication

944
00:43:58,940 --> 00:43:56,790
unclear but in general the linguist

945
00:44:02,990 --> 00:43:58,950
position is did you hear I understand

946
00:44:05,780 --> 00:44:03,000
you if so then it was perfectly fine you

947
00:44:08,240 --> 00:44:05,790
make a very good point and and far be it

948
00:44:10,460 --> 00:44:08,250
from us to halt the evolution of

949
00:44:13,190 --> 00:44:10,470
language it just runs off all by itself

950
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:13,200
and and all sorts of phrases and words

951
00:44:17,690 --> 00:44:15,770
and ways of saying things come come up

952
00:44:19,460 --> 00:44:17,700
exactly the things that we think are

953
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:19,470
perfectly unremarkable now or once

954
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:22,890
considered horrific and it reminds me of

955
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:25,650
words like awful for example which had a

956
00:44:32,299 --> 00:44:27,930
different origin aliy full of ore and

957
00:44:34,849 --> 00:44:32,309
now it's terrible yes they do that they

958
00:44:36,980 --> 00:44:34,859
meaning shift over time meaning switch

959
00:44:38,450 --> 00:44:36,990
with each other over time they get more

960
00:44:38,990 --> 00:44:38,460
and more specific over time yeah

961
00:44:41,660 --> 00:44:39,000
absolutely

962
00:44:43,490 --> 00:44:41,670
what a fascinating area of research it

963
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:43,500
truly it's deeply interesting and I

964
00:44:49,430 --> 00:44:46,490
think it it would interest anybody and

965
00:44:51,650 --> 00:44:49,440
the good news is as I alluded to at the

966
00:44:53,599 --> 00:44:51,660
top of the interview you'll be heading

967
00:44:55,220 --> 00:44:53,609
sydney way to speak at our national

968
00:44:57,710 --> 00:44:55,230
convention are these some of the sort of

969
00:45:00,500 --> 00:44:57,720
abroad subjects you'll be telling us

970
00:45:03,289 --> 00:45:00,510
about I'm gonna be a little bit more

971
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:03,299
specific in my talk up there one of the

972
00:45:06,980 --> 00:45:05,130
areas that I'm particularly interested

973
00:45:09,500 --> 00:45:06,990
in because I specialize in Australian

974
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:09,510
English and I'm interested in the kinds

975
00:45:14,299 --> 00:45:11,130
of decisions that we make about people

976
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:14,309
based on how they talk really really

977
00:45:23,329 --> 00:45:17,490
where we at can't stop thinking of Henry

978
00:45:25,430 --> 00:45:23,339
Higgins can we yes one of the words that

979
00:45:29,030 --> 00:45:25,440
comes up a lot in my research is bogan

980
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:29,040
well that's relatively new isn't it yeah

981
00:45:33,650 --> 00:45:31,530
well that's a good question with they'll

982
00:45:35,589 --> 00:45:33,660
try to figure out exactly what the word

983
00:45:38,569 --> 00:45:35,599
bogan means it's one of those words that

984
00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:38,579
Australians use all the time but often

985
00:45:41,870 --> 00:45:40,530
quite aren't quite aware of what they

986
00:45:45,109 --> 00:45:41,880
mean when they say it we don't really

987
00:45:46,700 --> 00:45:45,119
have a good definition yet it seems to

988
00:45:49,700 --> 00:45:46,710
have something to do with social class

989
00:45:51,799 --> 00:45:49,710
yeah primarily before anything else but

990
00:45:54,319 --> 00:45:51,809
what I'm going to be focusing on in my

991
00:45:56,420 --> 00:45:54,329
talk is looking at these kinds of

992
00:45:58,400 --> 00:45:56,430
decisions that people make and how

993
00:45:59,000 --> 00:45:58,410
perhaps they're not quite as rational as

994
00:46:05,090 --> 00:45:59,010
we like to

995
00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:05,100
oh you shocked me but I'm going to be

996
00:46:09,050 --> 00:46:07,650
showing some data from my own research

997
00:46:11,420 --> 00:46:09,060
where I've actually gone out and tried

998
00:46:13,070 --> 00:46:11,430
to learn these things about how people

999
00:46:15,500 --> 00:46:13,080
make these judgments and what the works

1000
00:46:17,060 --> 00:46:15,510
of things they decide wow that's that's

1001
00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:17,070
where did my appetite I'm sure that's

1002
00:46:22,490 --> 00:46:18,690
where did the appetite of that listeners

1003
00:46:24,260 --> 00:46:22,500
who are even now even now heading to the

1004
00:46:25,490 --> 00:46:24,270
convention websites to buy a ticket

1005
00:46:27,740 --> 00:46:25,500
after listening to this interesting

1006
00:46:28,310 --> 00:46:27,750
teaser about what you'll be speaking

1007
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:28,320
about

1008
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:30,210
leemarie I can't wait to meet you in

1009
00:46:34,010 --> 00:46:31,530
person and I'll certainly be in the

1010
00:46:36,230 --> 00:46:34,020
audience paying attention to your talk

1011
00:46:38,090 --> 00:46:36,240
because this is an area that has always

1012
00:46:39,710 --> 00:46:38,100
interest me and especially over the last

1013
00:46:41,810 --> 00:46:39,720
ten years of being a podcaster and

1014
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:41,820
dealing a lot with languages it's a

1015
00:46:45,620 --> 00:46:43,770
particular interest so there's the clue

1016
00:46:48,140 --> 00:46:45,630
folks another reason to get your

1017
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:48,150
convention tickets but for now leemarie

1018
00:46:52,090 --> 00:46:50,130
from Monash University thank you very

1019
00:47:01,670 --> 00:46:52,100
much thank you

1020
00:47:05,220 --> 00:47:01,680
[Music]

1021
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:05,230
hi this is Heidi Robertson from the

1022
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:07,170
Northern Rivers vaccination supporters

1023
00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:10,050
we are a group of concerned citizens

1024
00:47:15,240 --> 00:47:12,610
dedicated to promoting good science and

1025
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:15,250
common sense in our region the far north

1026
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:18,370
coast of New South Wales this area are

1027
00:47:23,250 --> 00:47:19,930
famous for its natural beauty and

1028
00:47:26,610 --> 00:47:23,260
relaxed lifestyle also has the lowest

1029
00:47:28,890 --> 00:47:26,620
rates of vaccination in Australia we are

1030
00:47:31,230 --> 00:47:28,900
out to change that by challenging the

1031
00:47:32,910 --> 00:47:31,240
myths and misinformation and by

1032
00:47:36,240 --> 00:47:32,920
providing good evidence-based

1033
00:47:38,070 --> 00:47:36,250
information to the community we'd love

1034
00:47:41,670 --> 00:47:38,080
for you no matter where you are in the

1035
00:47:49,290 --> 00:47:41,680
world to join our fight please visit our

1036
00:47:52,290 --> 00:47:49,300
webpage at wwlp.com folk we also have a

1037
00:47:55,230 --> 00:47:52,300
link there to our Facebook page tweet us

1038
00:47:57,720 --> 00:47:55,240
at in our FAQs supporters

1039
00:48:00,270 --> 00:47:57,730
that's va ex and check us out on

1040
00:48:03,460 --> 00:48:00,280
Wikipedia by searching for Northern

1041
00:48:17,279 --> 00:48:03,470
Rivers vaccination supporters thank you

1042
00:48:20,380 --> 00:48:17,289
[Music]

1043
00:48:23,589 --> 00:48:20,390
it's a Friday in Sydney and we are

1044
00:48:25,510 --> 00:48:23,599
actually seated on what would assisting

1045
00:48:28,900 --> 00:48:25,520
was sitting sitting on a wall offense

1046
00:48:31,359 --> 00:48:28,910
the samstone Bella straight outside Town

1047
00:48:34,240 --> 00:48:31,369
Hall yes it's in the Town Hall here we

1048
00:48:36,010 --> 00:48:34,250
are and we're in years past we could

1049
00:48:39,490 --> 00:48:36,020
watch the cars whiz by we're actually

1050
00:48:43,329 --> 00:48:39,500
watching the very [\h__\h] who construction

1051
00:48:44,710 --> 00:48:43,339
of the city's new light rail yes indeed

1052
00:48:46,779 --> 00:48:44,720
hopefully it'll be good when it's all

1053
00:48:49,870 --> 00:48:46,789
finished and operating in a couple of

1054
00:48:53,170 --> 00:48:49,880
years one year we don't know now even it

1055
00:48:55,599 --> 00:48:53,180
sits in rice the challenge coordinator

1056
00:48:57,579 --> 00:48:55,609
and a longtime investigator for strange

1057
00:48:59,349 --> 00:48:57,589
sceptics a longtime listeners to the

1058
00:49:01,089 --> 00:48:59,359
show certainly know Ian's voice over the

1059
00:49:06,190 --> 00:49:01,099
years we've discussed all sorts of

1060
00:49:08,260 --> 00:49:06,200
things from nuclear physics to the Higgs

1061
00:49:09,849 --> 00:49:08,270
boson lately and I was just asking you

1062
00:49:11,170 --> 00:49:09,859
before because we've just come from the

1063
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:11,180
Australian Museum where you and I have

1064
00:49:15,309 --> 00:49:12,890
been performing our mystery

1065
00:49:17,470 --> 00:49:15,319
investigators show and I was just asking

1066
00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:17,480
you before what happened to the Higgs

1067
00:49:21,010 --> 00:49:19,490
boson II and I mean it was it was huge

1068
00:49:22,539 --> 00:49:21,020
news and then suddenly it sort of fell

1069
00:49:24,819 --> 00:49:22,549
off the front page a little bit uh-huh

1070
00:49:26,319 --> 00:49:24,829
well of course all all discoveries are

1071
00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:26,329
overtaken by something else yes they

1072
00:49:30,430 --> 00:49:28,130
discovered the Higgs boson in the Large

1073
00:49:34,390 --> 00:49:30,440
Hadron Collider in and which was

1074
00:49:36,190 --> 00:49:34,400
announced in 2012 and after that they

1075
00:49:38,289 --> 00:49:36,200
they closed down the Large Hadron

1076
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:38,299
Collider to upgrade it so it'll have

1077
00:49:43,359 --> 00:49:40,490
double the power so they'll be able to

1078
00:49:46,900 --> 00:49:43,369
find more Higgs bosons and more

1079
00:49:48,849 --> 00:49:46,910
particles so that's operating again I

1080
00:49:50,769 --> 00:49:48,859
believe and we should hear about some

1081
00:49:52,630 --> 00:49:50,779
more particles soon some heavier

1082
00:49:54,819 --> 00:49:52,640
particles in the Higgs and more details

1083
00:49:58,539 --> 00:49:54,829
about the Higgs when you say they've

1084
00:50:01,750 --> 00:49:58,549
doubled the power how does that work

1085
00:50:03,220 --> 00:50:01,760
exactly if they accelerate they talk

1086
00:50:07,269 --> 00:50:03,230
about the energy of the particles

1087
00:50:10,029 --> 00:50:07,279
currently it can collide to protons with

1088
00:50:12,609 --> 00:50:10,039
an energy of 7 GeV

1089
00:50:15,010 --> 00:50:12,619
g-get electron volts and then upgrading

1090
00:50:18,220 --> 00:50:15,020
it so they'll have a total energy of 14

1091
00:50:21,339 --> 00:50:18,230
GeV which would be even more powerful I

1092
00:50:23,980 --> 00:50:21,349
suppose it's your dream astute would be

1093
00:50:28,420 --> 00:50:23,990
to visit this Collider oh I have done

1094
00:50:29,950 --> 00:50:28,430
I'm sorry I'm sorry I if I knew I forgot

1095
00:50:33,430 --> 00:50:29,960
that that's that's wonderful

1096
00:50:35,349 --> 00:50:33,440
its predecessor anyway an earlier device

1097
00:50:38,319 --> 00:50:35,359
in the same tunnel as it turned out in

1098
00:50:41,049 --> 00:50:38,329
the 1980s yes so there was something

1099
00:50:45,309 --> 00:50:41,059
there that long ago yes indeed it's been

1100
00:50:47,620 --> 00:50:45,319
around since maybe the 1950s and when

1101
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:47,630
they read they repurposed parts of it

1102
00:50:51,789 --> 00:50:49,010
like when they upgrade it

1103
00:50:53,319 --> 00:50:51,799
they keep parts of the old one and they

1104
00:50:57,130 --> 00:50:53,329
keep they reused the tunnels as

1105
00:50:58,599 --> 00:50:57,140
tunneling is very expensive so they so

1106
00:51:00,370 --> 00:50:58,609
it's the second or third accelerator

1107
00:51:02,980 --> 00:51:00,380
which has been in that 27 kilometer

1108
00:51:05,769 --> 00:51:02,990
tunnel and just as we were speaking a

1109
00:51:07,930 --> 00:51:05,779
man on a skateboard skated up took our

1110
00:51:10,809 --> 00:51:07,940
photograph gave me the thumbs up and

1111
00:51:12,190 --> 00:51:10,819
he's just skated away it again oh we we

1112
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:12,200
might appear on some of them skewer

1113
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:12,890
Bloggie and

1114
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:15,410
yes these little mysteries one can't be

1115
00:51:21,190 --> 00:51:18,410
sure maybe he's gone to a parallel

1116
00:51:22,450 --> 00:51:21,200
universe yes maybe he has you know it's

1117
00:51:24,610 --> 00:51:22,460
something else that's probably not known

1118
00:51:27,910 --> 00:51:24,620
the Large Hadron Collider what that

1119
00:51:31,270 --> 00:51:27,920
refers to is it collides hadrons which

1120
00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:31,280
is not only protons but atomic nuclei

1121
00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:35,810
bare nuclei for example lead nuclei it's

1122
00:51:41,410 --> 00:51:38,570
designed to collide to lead nuclei

1123
00:51:43,930 --> 00:51:41,420
together and a lit nucleus has many

1124
00:51:47,110 --> 00:51:43,940
protons and neutrons in it so when you

1125
00:51:48,940 --> 00:51:47,120
collide two of those they all get very

1126
00:51:51,450 --> 00:51:48,950
hot the energy goes into all of them

1127
00:51:54,510 --> 00:51:51,460
they bounce around off one another

1128
00:51:58,510 --> 00:51:54,520
representing what's sometimes called a

1129
00:52:00,100 --> 00:51:58,520
quark-gluon soup or quark gluon plasma

1130
00:52:02,650 --> 00:52:00,110
which represents the condition of the

1131
00:52:05,350 --> 00:52:02,660
universe something like 10 to the minus

1132
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:05,360
32 seconds after after the Big Bang so

1133
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:07,850
so there's more physics comes out of it

1134
00:52:12,370 --> 00:52:09,770
out of those different experiments and

1135
00:52:16,690 --> 00:52:12,380
you would be the sort of person in the

1136
00:52:19,210 --> 00:52:16,700
know the news of the Higgs boson was

1137
00:52:22,660 --> 00:52:19,220
what four years ago am i guessing five

1138
00:52:24,580 --> 00:52:22,670
years of 2012 20 2012 that long ago and

1139
00:52:26,650 --> 00:52:24,590
what if I read a song of a musical about

1140
00:52:29,620 --> 00:52:26,660
you certainly did you stood up yes that

1141
00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:29,630
night video that in fact folks are

1142
00:52:35,710 --> 00:52:31,970
linked in the show notes to IANS song

1143
00:52:38,500 --> 00:52:35,720
about the the Higgs boson I appeared to

1144
00:52:41,380 --> 00:52:38,510
the world in July 2012 and made

1145
00:52:42,940 --> 00:52:41,390
headlines in every newspaper that's the

1146
00:52:44,950 --> 00:52:42,950
one and you can hear the rest of it in

1147
00:52:48,010 --> 00:52:44,960
front of YouTube just look up ode to the

1148
00:52:50,050 --> 00:52:48,020
Higgs boson yes I'll check the links in

1149
00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:50,060
this week's show notes so since 2012

1150
00:52:53,470 --> 00:52:51,650
what is that brought us what you

1151
00:52:55,210 --> 00:52:53,480
understanding into the universe collided

1152
00:52:56,620 --> 00:52:55,220
as I said the lead nuclei to learn more

1153
00:52:58,480 --> 00:52:56,630
about the conditions in the early Big

1154
00:52:59,980 --> 00:52:58,490
Bang and now it's upgraded they're

1155
00:53:01,390 --> 00:52:59,990
searching for heavier particles I

1156
00:53:05,020 --> 00:53:01,400
understand it I haven't heard the latest

1157
00:53:06,430 --> 00:53:05,030
news but the Higgs is unlikely to be

1158
00:53:08,510 --> 00:53:06,440
there on its own it's gonna have some

1159
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:08,520
brothers and sisters which

1160
00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:10,890
around at the same mess in the hundreds

1161
00:53:16,339 --> 00:53:14,490
of mega electron volts and what does

1162
00:53:18,170 --> 00:53:16,349
this mean in everyday life I mean is it

1163
00:53:19,910 --> 00:53:18,180
more interesting scientific discoveries

1164
00:53:22,220 --> 00:53:19,920
I guess we don't know because these

1165
00:53:23,540 --> 00:53:22,230
things tend to lead like a snowball

1166
00:53:25,790 --> 00:53:23,550
effect and you never know what's going

1167
00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:25,800
to come about well they've always got

1168
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:27,930
some purpose it's not often you get to

1169
00:53:32,810 --> 00:53:30,890
do a scientific experiment with on spec

1170
00:53:35,720 --> 00:53:32,820
saying we don't know what it'll tell us

1171
00:53:38,990 --> 00:53:35,730
because if it costs a hundred trillion

1172
00:53:41,570 --> 00:53:39,000
dollars no one's gonna pay that on spec

1173
00:53:43,670 --> 00:53:41,580
yeah so one thing the the Higgs field

1174
00:53:46,250 --> 00:53:43,680
verifies that aspect of the standard

1175
00:53:47,870 --> 00:53:46,260
model of particle physics that the Higgs

1176
00:53:50,030 --> 00:53:47,880
particle verifies that there's a Higgs

1177
00:53:52,730 --> 00:53:50,040
field and Higgs field plays a role in

1178
00:53:54,320 --> 00:53:52,740
the early universe in fact that tonight

1179
00:53:58,220 --> 00:53:54,330
I'm speaking on Stephen Hawking's

1180
00:54:01,760 --> 00:53:58,230
physics and one of his some of his work

1181
00:54:04,820 --> 00:54:01,770
was to do with the inflation process in

1182
00:54:08,030 --> 00:54:04,830
the universe and it was driven by a

1183
00:54:09,589 --> 00:54:08,040
scalar field in theory which could be

1184
00:54:13,030 --> 00:54:09,599
the Higgs field or could be a variation

1185
00:54:15,470 --> 00:54:13,040
of it it would be something else so that

1186
00:54:17,089 --> 00:54:15,480
it's that field which created the

1187
00:54:19,120 --> 00:54:17,099
inflation period they believe where

1188
00:54:21,410 --> 00:54:19,130
everything was expanding so rapidly that

1189
00:54:24,170 --> 00:54:21,420
the whole thing lasted about 10 to the

1190
00:54:28,620 --> 00:54:24,180
minus 32 seconds anyway Stephen

1191
00:54:31,170 --> 00:54:28,630
Hawking's last paper was on

1192
00:54:34,440 --> 00:54:31,180
it's called a smooth exit from eternal

1193
00:54:36,240 --> 00:54:34,450
inflation and that's governed by a field

1194
00:54:39,390 --> 00:54:36,250
which could well be the Higgs field or

1195
00:54:41,580 --> 00:54:39,400
related so therefore the new experiments

1196
00:54:44,850 --> 00:54:41,590
in Large Hadron Collider could tell us

1197
00:54:47,130 --> 00:54:44,860
about whether that theory is true or not

1198
00:54:48,630 --> 00:54:47,140
and one of the things that I don't know

1199
00:54:50,340 --> 00:54:48,640
if it's happened yet but I'm sure it

1200
00:54:53,310 --> 00:54:50,350
will happen it happened with the word

1201
00:54:55,500 --> 00:54:53,320
quantum it seems that the half the woo

1202
00:54:58,230 --> 00:54:55,510
we come across these days they'll say

1203
00:55:00,060 --> 00:54:58,240
this is quantum or this works by quantum

1204
00:55:03,260 --> 00:55:00,070
energy or but this pill has quantum

1205
00:55:05,610 --> 00:55:03,270
entanglement inside but I haven't heard

1206
00:55:08,340 --> 00:55:05,620
been talking about this pill or this

1207
00:55:10,350 --> 00:55:08,350
device is Higgs I think they still have

1208
00:55:11,910 --> 00:55:10,360
to use the word quantum but as I

1209
00:55:14,910 --> 00:55:11,920
understand it and I don't understand

1210
00:55:17,820 --> 00:55:14,920
quantum that this is just using a word

1211
00:55:19,410 --> 00:55:17,830
out of science isn't it yes has a very

1212
00:55:21,630 --> 00:55:19,420
specific meaning in science and one

1213
00:55:23,250 --> 00:55:21,640
thing we laugh about it's the fact when

1214
00:55:25,140 --> 00:55:23,260
someone does this represents a quantum

1215
00:55:28,020 --> 00:55:25,150
leap in human rights what they mean is

1216
00:55:31,020 --> 00:55:28,030
are largely I see yeah a quantum leap is

1217
00:55:32,310 --> 00:55:31,030
a smallest possible you can get the

1218
00:55:34,620 --> 00:55:32,320
other word that they throw around is

1219
00:55:36,750 --> 00:55:34,630
holographic the holographic universe

1220
00:55:39,150 --> 00:55:36,760
that's a legitimate field of scientific

1221
00:55:41,970 --> 00:55:39,160
study but it's been hijacked by the woo

1222
00:55:44,730 --> 00:55:41,980
masters we talk about the holographic

1223
00:55:46,980 --> 00:55:44,740
universes as explaining human

1224
00:55:48,660 --> 00:55:46,990
consciousness and it's synergy with the

1225
00:55:50,460 --> 00:55:48,670
rest of the universe and it basically

1226
00:55:53,370 --> 00:55:50,470
says all things are interconnected and

1227
00:55:55,430 --> 00:55:53,380
interconnected yeah how will we get this

1228
00:55:58,110 --> 00:55:55,440
all the time and especially words like

1229
00:56:01,670 --> 00:55:58,120
vibrate hello what was that oh that's

1230
00:56:04,440 --> 00:56:01,680
bus is stuck over there two buses

1231
00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:04,450
vibration is a word frequently used in

1232
00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:07,930
these mind-body wallet festivals energy

1233
00:56:13,020 --> 00:56:11,050
is the the most misused word I think has

1234
00:56:14,240 --> 00:56:13,030
energy embedded in any energy of the

1235
00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:14,250
energy and oh yeah

1236
00:56:19,040 --> 00:56:17,490
I mean as a scientist a physicist an

1237
00:56:21,470 --> 00:56:19,050
engineer that must drive you crazy

1238
00:56:23,630 --> 00:56:21,480
yes I've many times asked people such as

1239
00:56:25,870 --> 00:56:23,640
at the bone the mind-body-spirit

1240
00:56:29,810 --> 00:56:25,880
festival that you you're selling this

1241
00:56:31,580 --> 00:56:29,820
device which has got energies in a well

1242
00:56:33,350 --> 00:56:31,590
energy is what your electricity meters

1243
00:56:36,100 --> 00:56:33,360
measures exactly but that's what it's

1244
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:36,110
for it's a measure electrical energy and

1245
00:56:41,660 --> 00:56:39,290
they don't know what I'm talking about

1246
00:56:44,270 --> 00:56:41,670
is understanding the word energy which

1247
00:56:45,050 --> 00:56:44,280
is just fictitious made-up but it makes

1248
00:56:47,150 --> 00:56:45,060
sense to them

1249
00:56:49,220 --> 00:56:47,160
that's right vibration and frequencies

1250
00:56:51,650 --> 00:56:49,230
remember the wine card you get skeptics

1251
00:56:54,710 --> 00:56:51,660
in the pub test of this the wine card

1252
00:56:57,980 --> 00:56:54,720
which had hidden frequency vibrations

1253
00:57:01,400 --> 00:56:57,990
and you drink enough wine then you sing

1254
00:57:03,110 --> 00:57:01,410
also the vibrations as frequency yes you

1255
00:57:05,450 --> 00:57:03,120
know integrated ketchup with you thanks

1256
00:57:07,220 --> 00:57:05,460
for being in the mystery investigators

1257
00:57:09,560 --> 00:57:07,230
show today at the Australian Museum that

1258
00:57:11,090 --> 00:57:09,570
was a lot of fun as ever and as your

1259
00:57:15,050 --> 00:57:11,100
Richard and we look forward to more

1260
00:57:17,810 --> 00:57:15,060
interesting news on the Higgs boson feel

1261
00:57:20,590 --> 00:57:17,820
accelerator slammer put another song to

1262
00:57:38,130 --> 00:57:20,600
that that was sexy

1263
00:57:43,600 --> 00:57:40,840
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1264
00:57:46,120 --> 00:57:43,610
zone now a message really aimed at those

1265
00:57:50,590 --> 00:57:46,130
folks listening to us in the United

1266
00:57:52,930 --> 00:57:50,600
States of America at the moment the

1267
00:57:57,000 --> 00:57:52,940
Australian dollar is going down the

1268
00:58:01,000 --> 00:57:57,010
gurgler I think at the moment it's about

1269
00:58:03,820 --> 00:58:01,010
71 cents compared to the US dollar not

1270
00:58:06,370 --> 00:58:03,830
good if if you're an Australian buying

1271
00:58:07,900 --> 00:58:06,380
things from the United States great if

1272
00:58:09,610 --> 00:58:07,910
you're an American coming here for a

1273
00:58:12,250 --> 00:58:09,620
holiday you know a dollar goes a lot

1274
00:58:14,500 --> 00:58:12,260
further and as far as the skeptic zone

1275
00:58:16,810 --> 00:58:14,510
is concerned it means that those people

1276
00:58:20,620 --> 00:58:16,820
who contribute from the United States

1277
00:58:25,630 --> 00:58:20,630
using US dollars your contribution goes

1278
00:58:29,710 --> 00:58:25,640
further hey Siri what's ten u.s. dollars

1279
00:58:34,060 --> 00:58:29,720
in Australian dollars ten u.s. dollars

1280
00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:34,070
is $14 seven seven cents so there you go

1281
00:58:39,790 --> 00:58:36,890
if you contribute $10 u.s. it turns into

1282
00:58:42,760 --> 00:58:39,800
14 dollars and seven cents here in

1283
00:58:44,470 --> 00:58:42,770
Australia if you'd like to chip in at

1284
00:58:46,630 --> 00:58:44,480
the moment those people listening in the

1285
00:58:49,060 --> 00:58:46,640
United States we get a bigger bang for

1286
00:58:50,650 --> 00:58:49,070
your buck now don't forget on the tour

1287
00:58:53,500 --> 00:58:50,660
of October here in Sydney of the

1288
00:58:55,960 --> 00:58:53,510
Occidental hotel that's a Friday evening

1289
00:58:58,600 --> 00:58:55,970
we have a huge welcome event for our

1290
00:59:00,790 --> 00:58:58,610
guests coming to the Australian skeptics

1291
00:59:02,800 --> 00:59:00,800
convention skeptic on this is open to

1292
00:59:06,400 --> 00:59:02,810
everybody of course we're gonna have

1293
00:59:08,530 --> 00:59:06,410
lots of fun and a big trivia night to to

1294
00:59:11,470 --> 00:59:08,540
look forward to with some prizes to give

1295
00:59:14,320 --> 00:59:11,480
way if you love trivia all we ask is you

1296
00:59:16,930 --> 00:59:14,330
just register so we know the numbers

1297
00:59:18,550 --> 00:59:16,940
it's a free night and you can do that by

1298
00:59:21,460 --> 00:59:18,560
following the links on this week's show

1299
00:59:23,410 --> 00:59:21,470
notes or visiting skeptics comdata you

1300
00:59:25,930 --> 00:59:23,420
and following the links there of course

1301
00:59:28,090 --> 00:59:25,940
while you're on that page registering

1302
00:59:31,720 --> 00:59:28,100
for the trivia night you can buy your

1303
00:59:32,950 --> 00:59:31,730
tickets for the skeptic on coming up on

1304
00:59:37,210 --> 00:59:32,960
next week's show we're going to be

1305
00:59:39,760 --> 00:59:37,220
looking into foot detox machines detox

1306
00:59:41,890 --> 00:59:39,770
your foot well the claim is that detox

1307
00:59:43,810 --> 00:59:41,900
is your whole body through your feet

1308
00:59:46,840 --> 00:59:43,820
some highlights from the last skeptics

1309
00:59:49,060 --> 00:59:46,850
in the pub with Maynard the story about

1310
00:59:50,050 --> 00:59:49,070
the blood donation I was discussing at

1311
00:59:52,510 --> 00:59:50,060
the top of the show

1312
00:59:54,970 --> 00:59:52,520
and we catch up with Claire Klingenberg

1313
00:59:57,460 --> 00:59:54,980
from the Czech Republic who was recently

1314
01:00:01,420 --> 00:59:57,470
in Scotland and Germany where she helped

1315
01:00:02,170 --> 01:00:01,430
test some paranormal powers that should

1316
01:00:04,300 --> 01:00:02,180
be interesting

1317
01:00:11,110 --> 01:00:04,310
so until then mrs. Richard Saunders

1318
01:00:12,910 --> 01:00:11,120
signing off from Sydney Australia you've

1319
01:00:15,540 --> 01:00:12,920
been listening to the skeptic zone

1320
01:00:22,210 --> 01:00:15,550
podcast please visit our website at

1321
01:00:25,710 --> 01:00:22,220
wwlp.com tax and to access the bat

1322
01:00:28,390 --> 01:00:25,720
catalog of episodes going back to 2008

1323
01:00:31,690 --> 01:00:28,400
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1324
01:00:33,970 --> 01:00:31,700
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1325
01:00:37,330 --> 01:00:33,980
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1326
01:00:40,690 --> 01:00:37,340
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1327
01:00:43,060 --> 01:00:40,700
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1328
01:00:44,830 --> 01:00:43,070
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1329
01:00:47,200 --> 01:00:44,840
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1330
01:00:49,360 --> 01:00:47,210
expressed on the skeptic zone are not

1331
01:00:52,290 --> 01:00:49,370
necessarily those of Australian skeptics

1332
01:01:02,840 --> 01:00:52,300
or any other skeptical organisation

1333
01:01:08,880 --> 01:01:05,490
I've come downstairs and it's not time

1334
01:01:11,940 --> 01:01:08,890
for me to have some something to eat